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Paul N. Saunders oral history transcript

An interview of the Washington University Medical Center Desegregation History Project, conducted by Edwin W. McCleskey and associates, 1990. Approximate Length: 64 minutes.

Paul Saunders discusses the suit he and others filed against Barnes Hospital in 1978 for civil rights violations, as well as the state of health care policy and health care for Black people in St. Louis.

Saunders discusses the policy for “geographic separation of patients” at Barnes Hospital’s Maternity Hospital, initiated by hospital director Robert Frank in 1978, and the suit Saunders and others filed with the Missouri Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

He addresses hospital policies and procedures which create informal segregation, and the effects of white flight on medical care in St. Louis, particularly for indigent patients. He discusses the need for national health insurance, and barriers created by the current health care system for Black patients.

Howard Phillip Venable oral history transcript

An interview of the Washington University Medical Center Desegregation History Project, conducted by Edwin W. McCleskey and associates, 1990. Approximate Length: 1 hour and 16 minutes.

Please note that some of Venable’s statements contain ambiguities that the interviewers were unable to verify.

Howard Phillip Venable discusses his experience at Homer G. Phillips Hospital, the desegregation of hospitals in St. Louis, his work with students, and his experience with housing discrimination.

Venable describes how he came to work at Homer G. Phillips Hospital and the segregation of medical care and medical education in St. Louis in the 1930s and 1940s. He explains the connections between Homer Phillips, Washington University, and St. Louis University, and discusses the doctors from Washington University and Barnes Hospital who came to Homer Phillips. Venable also relates his work identifying ophthalmological differences between Black and white patients.

He addresses his role in desegregating an ophthalmology society in St. Louis, the housing discrimination he faced in Creve Coeur and his case against the city, and the part he played in the desegregation of St. Louis hospitals. He relates his experience as a Black doctor before Barnes integrated, and the white patients he saw at his private practice. He also discusses the closure of Homer Phillips and the differences between Homer Phillips and Max Sarkloff Hospital (City Hospital No. 1).

Venable discusses the establishment of the Katie and Howard Phillip Venable Student Research Fund in Ophthalmology and his experience as an associate examiner for the American Board of Ophthalmology. He also explains what he thinks should be done to get more Black students into medical school.

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